Matthieu Ricard: “Reducing all of Buddhism to mindfulness is far too simplistic”

How do you look at your journey with Buddhism?

I have spent 55 years in the Himalayas, between Darjeeling, Bhutan and Nepal. I feel unbelievably fortunate to have met accomplished Buddhist masters like Kangyur Rinpoche, Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, and the Dalai Lama — people full of wisdom and compassion, completely available for others and dedicated to their welfare. That is so rare in this world. Working as an interpreter for the Dalai Lama in France, for example, was so refreshing spiritually. He is the same with the lady cleaning the corridors in a hotel and with the head of state. He connects deeply with every human being. I found that very inspiring.

I am based in Nepal. I was away for five years in France to take care of my mother (French painter Yahne Le Toumelin who became a Buddhist nun). She lived up to a hundred years, and passed away in 2023. Now that my mummy-sitting years are over, I am back in Nepal.

Do you plan to teach now?

I am not a teacher. I am a perpetual disciple. I just share some ideas that I care for.

In Buddhist monasteries and meditation retreats, mindfulness is taught along with compassion and the aspiration to benefit all sentient beings who are suffering. But today, mindfulness is used in military training so that the person killing the enemy can do so without losing focus. How do you feel about this interpretation of mindfulness?

That is not mindfulness in the Buddhist sense. In Buddhist practice, we do not limit ourselves to mindfulness of the present moment but we strive to bring our thoughts, speech and action in harmony with the Buddha’s teachings. That requires constant vigilance.

The teachings offer antidotes that can be applied for freedom from craving, hatred and identification with emotions. For people who blow their fuse, the antidote is patience. For malevolent thoughts, the antidote is benevolence. There are even deeper antidotes for not identifying with the object of anger, stress, and anxiety so that we can experience freedom.

Mindfulness may be just a tool but it is important because it helps you stay alert and awake. Without it, your attention will wander all over the place. You will not achieve anything. But being attentive and non-judgemental is not enough. The technical definition of modern mindfulness is so narrow that even a psychopath could be mindful. According to the Buddha’s teachings, mindfulness is not just awareness. It should be naturally imbued with compassion. It should arise from good intentions, not from the wish to harm or hurt someone.

When we look at another human being, we think about how they want to be happy and they do not want to suffer. Now that is exactly what we want, isn’t it? When we see this, how can we then kill a fellow human being? Without compassion, wisdom is sterile. Similarly, compassion without discernment is inadvisable. Traditionally speaking, compassion and wisdom are often compared to the two wings of a bird. Both are needed in order to fly.

Dhyana, which is often translated as concentration, is one of the paramitas or perfections described in Buddhism for those on the path to attain enlightenment. What are your thoughts on the commercialization and commodification of mindfulness?

Ronald Purser has used the word “McMindfulness” to describe this in his book McMindfulness: How Mindfulness Became the New Capitalist Spirituality. Let me put this simply. If you have a limited method, then you get limited results. It is not bad; it is limited. Before Jon Kabat-Zinn started talking about Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), there was no place for mindfulness in medical schools. He showed how mindfulness can be used as a tool to help in the medical system where patients are stressed and caregivers are stressed. It is taken from Buddhism but applied to everyone. Some tools can be used independently of their context. But to mistake a tool for the whole of Buddhism is a problem. As the Dalai Lama has said, reducing all of Buddhism to mindfulness is far too simplistic.

Deities have an important place in Tibetan Buddhist practice but they evoke surprise and confusion in people who associate Buddhism only with the historical Buddha known as Shakyamuni. How would you explain Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara?

Deities are most misunderstood. They are archetypes, representing different aspects of enlightenment. Manjushri, for example, is associated with wisdom while Avalokiteshwara is associated with compassion. As a beginner, it is helpful to visualize these qualities through archetypes so that we can cultivate them in ourselves instead of clinging to individualism.

Some Buddhist teachers speak of mindfulness; others speak of emptying the mind. Are these different ways of approaching the same goal?

What we have received from the Buddha is extraordinarily rich and vast. There are different texts that correspond to different teachings on the path. If someone has a headache or a flu, they are not given the most expensive medicine in the world. If you need to open a door, you don’t need a golden key. You just need the key that is right for that particular door. At every moment, there are teachings that are right for you to help you go a few steps further in your practice. It is a beautifully graded path. At every step, it is important to blend the teaching with your mind instead of staring at words on the page. Else, it is a bit like collecting a doctor’s prescription and keeping it under your pillow but never taking the medicine.

What is the role of rituals and ceremonies in nurturing mindfulness?

Everything has a function. Sometimes, we have ceremonies that last for seven days and seven nights. Non-stop! At night, we take turns so that they can go on without any interruptions. This collective practice is based on texts and teachings. We do not sit there uttering some magic formula. There are reasons behind everything that we do. There are graded meditations in texts that are 30-40 pages long. These are repeated three or four times in a single day. That becomes very intense practice. Those who are not aware of the significance look only at the outer form of a ceremony and miss out on its deeper meaning. After the function is fulfilled, at some point, you need to step out of elaborate conceptual practices like ceremonies and directly relate to the nature of the mind without all these tools.

Often Buddhist teachers addressing an audience of primarily Western students under-emphasize or not mention karma at all. Why do you think this is the case?

This is because karma is a widely misunderstood concept. Simply put, it is the law of cause and effect. It makes us think about the results of our actions – actions of body, speech and mind. All actions are motivated by specific intentions. If your action is motivated by hatred, then you are going to get suffering down the line. The consequences of your actions may not come immediately. This is a bit like you throwing a stone in the air and forgetting all about it until it comes back, catches you by surprise, and hits you on the head.

Do you think that secular mindfulness focuses on the individual, and eliminates this crucial aspect of interconnectedness that reminds humans to look beyond themselves?

Yes, the motivation is very important. A hammer can be used to build a house or to hit someone. Petrol can be used to drive a car or to burn down a house. Like a hammer, like petrol, mindfulness is a tool. It has no intrinsic positive or negative value. Therefore, the motivation is important. Two aspects are missing from secular mindfulness practice. One is bodhichitta, or the mind of enlightenment. Traditionally, when we meditate, the intention is to get enlightened so that we can help other sentient beings be free of their suffering. We are not concerned only with I, me and myself. Secondly, the view of emptiness is missing. It is also importance to recognize that, when mindfulness is used in a medical setting, you cannot be discussing enlightenment and emptiness. If people are benefiting from mindfulness and getting better, that is a good thing, but let’s not say that Buddhism is only about mindfulness.

What would you tell people who use mindfulness as a substitute for medication, and do not get professional support for anxiety, depression, and other mental health issues?

The benefits of mindfulness are well-recognized but it is not a substitute. Both mindfulness and medicine have their own role to play. The book, Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy for Depression, by Zindel Segal, Mark Williams and John Teasdale, shows that mindfulness reduces relapse into depression to a significant extent but that doesn’t mean you should just stop your medication when you feel like it. In a medical setting, you need to have a qualified doctor who can help you understand what will benefit you corresponding to your needs. A specialist knows what you need right now, and also when to change your medication. It would be criminal to exclude what medicine has to offer!

Chintan Girish Modi is a Mumbai-based journalist who writes about books, art and culture. He can be reached @chintanwriting on Instagram and X.