Jenny Erpenbeck: “There is a place in the world for socialism”

This is your first trip to India. How did you imagine it would be, and how has it turned out?

Before travelling to India, I had imagined that it would be very interesting, different from Europe certainly, and with lots of colour and people. My husband, Wolfgang, is travelling with me. We like it very much here. There are some things about India that seem really modern, and there are other things that make you feel like you have gone back in time almost 700 years ago. We saw a lot of poor people on the streets of Chennai. The social gap was not that visible in Kozhikode because most people are well-educated. We were really impressed by the friendliness of the people in Kerala, and just the fact that there are so many young people interested in literature. I have never seen them in such large numbers at a literature festival. I must warn you that our impressions of India are a bit limited because we are on a festival tour, and we usually go from the hotel to the festival venue and then come back. I look forward to exploring Jaipur, Delhi and Agra as well.

Are you the kind of author who loves to meet readers?

When I started writing seriously, and considering myself an author, I did not expect so much social interaction. I have learnt, over time, that half of the work is going to events, speaking at sessions, participating in discussions, and giving interviews like this one. Most people imagine that being a writer means sitting at home and writing at your desk. I used to think the same. Now I feel that travelling gives me opportunities to learn something about other cultures. I get to hear people’s stories. It is also quite wonderful to meet other writers, who are colleagues in a way, and to exchange opinions with them. That is a privilege, and I am grateful for it. But, let’s be honest, social interactions can also be exhausting. Sometimes, people want to talk about your grandmother rather than your book.

You entered the publishing industry as a bookbinder before you became an author. How did it make you see the physical process of making a book?

There are two kinds of bookbinding. There is industrial bookbinding, and then there is craftsmanship. I was involved with the second kind. I did a two-year apprenticeship where I was dealing mostly with single books that were bound with leather or parchment. I did not get into industrial mass production. One of the good things about growing up in East Germany was that even kids who came from well-educated families often went for an apprenticeship before studying. There was no hierarchy classifying jobs as superior and inferior. I studied Latin and Greek at school but that did not prevent me from learning how to be a bookbinder. That training helped me see the book as a kind of artistic object. Sometimes, I have to read books in electronic form when I am travelling because I cannot carry physical copies around because of their weight and the space they take up. But I love the physical form of the book. I love flipping through. I love the smell of ink. I love touching, holding and feeling books.

Your novel, Kairos, is the first book translated from German to win the International Booker Prize. How does it feel to bring this honour to your language?

I am happy that Michael Hofmann translated my book. The prize that we have got is also an achievement for other Germans. We have some great writers. I wish that people who read in English would be a bit more interested in the literature coming out of tiny countries in Europe. As I have seen at the Kerala Literature Festival, all the authors regardless of their country or language are dealing with some really interesting subjects. We should not be divided by language, skin colour, or anything else for that matter. Translation opens up the world for you. I live in Berlin. Since I come from a country with a language that is not spoken everywhere, I am used to reading translated literature all the time. My mother was a translator of books written in Arabic. I grew up reading and loving Arabic literature. I have also read a lot of French and Russian literature translated into German. There is so much to discover about different cultures and communities through translation.

Music has a significant presence in Kairos. It is not just playing in the background. It creates an atmosphere, and it moves the story forward. How did your training at the Hanns Eisler Music Conservatory contribute to the influence of music on your writing?

Music became a part of my life much before I trained at the music conservatory and became an opera director. Both my parents were deeply interested in music. I grew up taking piano lessons. The presence of music in our lives brought in a feeling for rhythm, which also found its way into my writing. Music has its own logic and structure. It creates a sense of space, time and freedom. It can speed things up or slow things down. It can bring alive the sounds of a language. I love what music can do. If you have encountered it in your childhood or your youth in a profound and expansive way, like I have, it will never leave you. Speaking of Kairos more specifically, yes, my intention was to use music to take the story forward in the book and also to create a contemplative atmosphere for my characters.

Do you listen to music while writing?

No, never! (laughs) That’s because writing has a music of its own. I wouldn’t mix it up with some other external music.

Kairos explores the relationship between 19-year-old Katharina, and Hans, who is in his early 50s. To what extent did the MeToo movement shape the way you look at sexuality in the book? How did you think about consent while writing this book?

It is clear that Katharina wants a relationship with Hans, who is much older than her. She asks him to have sex with her. In the beginning, she is self-confident and undestroyed. She is expressing her freedom by seeking him out. He is, in a way, educating her. He is sharing his passion for art with her. She is also getting something from him. She is beautiful, and he is knowledgeable. It is an exchange that is based on free will. As the story develops and more details are revealed, we see power shifting to his side. He turns out to be someone who is experienced in manipulating people. He knows how to prolong the relationship at a point when she is about to leave him. The moment the free will is lost, it starts becoming an abusive relationship. This is what interested me as a writer. I wanted to look at how something that starts with great hope and euphoria can turn around and become oppressive. Katharina is open to being with someone who is an unconventional companion, but she does not realize until it is too late that she is being hurt by this relationship that is based on secrets, lying and betrayal. I wanted to show the process of transition from a true relationship to a false one.

The book draws from your own experience of growing up in East Germany, which saw itself as a socialist state. Is there a place for socialism in today’s world?

Yes, that’s right. The social problems that, in a way, were the starting point for socialist ideals, continue to exist. They have stayed unsolved until now. We can see that capitalism and globalization are destroying the world. They are focused only on maximizing profits. What should be done in a better way than before is to promote the idea that we need solidarity to keep our world together. Distribution of resources is the main problem that we are facing now. This cannot be solved for families and communities by corporations that seek profits. There is a place for socialism.

What are your thoughts on socialist and communist states turning into totalitarian regimes?

That comes from the structural problem of having one leading party. When there is no opposition or self-critique, there is a concentration of power that is used to control and terrorize. Even in collectives, you have one or more people who are more powerful than others and they try to rule. I am not a politician, but I think a lot about this because of what happened to my grandparents. They were forced to migrate to the Soviet Union because they were on the first list of people to be persecuted by Adolf Hitler. They were communists, who had fought against Hitler before he rose to power. They used to write poetry and have performances against fascism. They had to flee to save their lives. They spent a few years in Moscow and then made it back to Germany. Not everyone was lucky enough to come back. A lot of good people, who thought seriously about making the world a better place, were killed by the system. This aspect of history has cast a shadow on how people think about socialism today.

What are you working on currently?

I want to write a book about my father. I am not sure if it will be fiction or non-fiction because I have written only six pages so far. He used to be a writer. He is still alive. We talk about various subjects including philosophy, history and politics. He stopped writing fiction when the Berlin Wall came down. When I ask him to write his autobiography, he says that nobody would be interested. I disagree with him. He was born in the Soviet Union and spent the first three years of his childhood there. He had Russian nannies, so his Russian was better than his German. When my grandparents moved back to Germany, my father realized that the Russian language was not liked in Germany. My father’s life story is intertwined with many political events. I hope that it will be of interest to many people beyond me.

Chintan Girish Modi is a Mumbai-based journalist who writes about books, art and culture. He can be reached @chintanwriting on Instagram and X.